Amanpour and Company | Is America Becoming an Overstretched Superpower? | Season 2023

AS WE CAN SEE, THE WORLD IS FACING SERIOUS SERIES OF CHALLENGES AND THE UNITED STATES IS INVOLVED IN ALL OF THEM.

IN A RECENT ARTICLE, THE ANTOINE LaGUARDIA ARGUES THAT THE U.S. COULD BE OVERSTRETCH AND HE GIVES HARI SREENIVASAN OF YOU ABROAD OF AMERICA.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

IN A RECENT ISSUE OF THE ECONOMIST ESSENTIALLY LAID OUT THE CASE OF WHY YOU THOUGHT THAT AMERICAN POWER IS GOING TO BE TESTED AND IT MAY BE ON THE DECLINE.

WHAT ARE THE CHALLENGES FACING THE ADMINISTRATION AND JOE BIDEN?

MAKE THE ADMINISTRATION HAS ALREADY BEEN EXTREMELY BUSY AND TRYING TO SUPPORT UKRAINE IN ITS WAR AGAINST RUSSIA.

>> AT THE COST OF ECONOMIC AID AND PEOPLE ARE ALREADY ASKING WHETHER THE U.S. AND ITS ALLIES HAD THE WHEREWITHAL TO HAVE A CONTINGENCY OVER SAY, TAIWAN.

YOU HAVE THE CRISIS IN THE MIDDLE EAST HAPPENING THOUGH THIS IS A SECOND WAR THAT THE U.S. IS INVOLVED IN IN DIRECTLY BUT IN THIS CASE, MORE DIRECTLY IN THAT IT IS SENDING TWO STRIKE GROUPS TO AREAS AROUND THE MIDDLE EAST AND ASIAN ALLIES NOTICE THESE THINGS.

A LOT OF HARDWARE IS GOING THROUGH TO THE MIDDLE EAST.

HARDWARE THAT THEY WOULD PRESUMABLY LIKE TO SEE CLOSE TO ASIA.

IT GOES BEYOND MERELY, YOU KNOW, AMERICA'S MILITARY DEPLOYMENTS.

IT HAS TO DO WITH THE, CAN AMERICA'S INDUSTRIAL BASE SUPPORT THE NOW THREE SETS OF ALLIES, UKRAINE, ISRAEL, AND TAIWAN AT THE SAME TIME?

ALL OF WHICH IT IS TRYING TO ARM INTO THE KIND OF, YOU KNOW, TO TRY AND HELP THEM WAGE THEIR OWN CONFLICTS, OR AT LEAST DETER ATTACKS IN THE FUTURE AND THAT, IN TURN, LEADS TO THE WHOLE QUESTION OF AMERICA'S POLITICAL POLARIZED NATION AND THE PARALYSIS THAT YOU HAVE SEEN IN CONGRESS UNTIL NOW, WHERE, YOU KNOW, MONEY FOR UKRAINE IS EXTREMELY HARD TO COME BY.

YOU HAVE HAD THE HOLDUP OVER THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE , YOU KNOW, IT MAY NOT BE RESOLVED, BUT WE DON'T KNOW WHERE THE MONEY FOR UKRAINE WILL BE FORTHCOMING.

>> ASSESS PRESIDENT BIDEN'S HANDLING SO FAR OF THE ISRAEL HAMAS WAR.

HE HAS BEEN STAUNCH ALLY OF ISRAEL.

HE HAS TAKEN THE STEPS NECESSARY SO THAT IS VISIBLE FOR THE ENTIRE PLANET TO SEE, AS YOU SAID.

HE HAS MOVED TWO CARRIER STRIKE GROUPS INTO THE REGION TO LET THE REGION KNOW THAT THE UNITED STATES WANTS TO MINIMIZE THE OUTBREAK OF THIS WAR FROM GETTING FURTHER.

WHAT DOES HE HAVE TO DO RIGHT NOW IN HOW HE POSTURES WITH ISRAEL .

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, TRIES TO STOP THIS WAR ?

>> HE HAS A VERY DIFFICULT HAND TO PLAY.

I THINK HE IS INSTINCTIVELY AND EMOTIONALLY CLOSE TO ISRAEL SO HE HAS EMBRACED ISRAEL, HUGGED THEM CLOSE, TO SHOW THAT AMERICA STANDS BEHIND ISRAEL.

NOTHING THAT COMES FROM A DEEPLY HELD CONVICTION.

HE CALLS HIMSELF A ZIONIST.

AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK HE IS TRYING TO EMBRACE ISRAEL IN THE SENSE AS A FORM OF RESTRAINT TO SAY, LOOK.

AS YOUR BEST FRIEND, I HAVE YOUR BEST INTEREST AT HEART.

THAT YOU NEED TO KEEP THIS CONFLICT WITHIN BOUNDS, WITHIN BOUNDS OF THE RULES OF WAR, BUT ALSO WITHIN POLITICAL BOUNDS SO THAT THE HUMANITARIAN SUFFERING IN GAZA IS NOT DEEMED TO BE EXCESSIVE.

YOU ARE HEARING EVER LOUDER VOICES THAT THE , YOU KNOW, THE SORT OF PAIN OF THE POPULATION IN GAZA IS REACHING LEVELS THAT ARE EXTREMELY WORRYING.

NOT JUST IN TERMS OF --THE PLIGHTS OF HOSPITALS, AND SO ON.

HE IS TRYING TO BUY THEIR TIME, GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRY AND GET AT HAMAS, BUT ALSO MAKE SURE THAT IT IS DONE WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF A POLITICALLY VARIABLE.

>> IS THERE A RISK HERE FOR THE PRESIDENT IN DESTABILIZING THE REGION FURTHER BY TAKING THE ACTIONS THAT HE IS TAKING TO ESPECIALLY IF PATIENCE STARTS TO WEAR THIN IN THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY THAT, PERHAPS, THIS RESPONSE FROM ISRAEL IS DISPROPORTIONATE ALREADY , BUT IT COULD BE MUCH WORSE.

>> IF PRESIDENT BIDEN CAN SHOW THAT HE HAS MODERATED ISRAEL'S RESPONSE , THEN I, YOU KNOW, HIS EMBRACE OF ISRAEL WILL BE SEEN AS A WISE THING TO DO.

IF, HOWEVER, IT BECOMES, YOU KNOW, A TERRIBLE , IT'S ALREADY A TERRIBLE HUMANITARIAN COSTS, BUT IT IMPOSES AN EVEN WORSE HUMANITARIAN PLIGHT ON GAZA AND PALESTINIANS, AND LEADS TO EVEN LARGER, MUCH LARGER LOSS OF LIFE, THEN THERE IS A DANGER THAT THE U.S. WILL BE TARRED BY THE SAME BRUSH.

IT WILL BECOME, IN A SENSE, COMPLICIT IN THE EYES OF THE WORLD.

IN WHAT IS HAPPENING IN GAZA.

NEEDLESS TO SAY, THE UNITED STATES IS A BIG PART OF INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY AND HAS A SAY BUT IT IS STRIKING THAT THE WESTERN ALLIES WHO ARE SO UNITED ON THE QUESTION OF UKRAINE ARE MORE DIVIDED ON THE QUESTION OF ISRAEL AND PALESTINE.

YOU HAD A U.N. COUNCIL RESOLUTION, WHICH WAS VETOED BY THE UNITED STATES, UNITED KINGDOM ABSTAINED, INFERENCE VOTED IN FAVOR.

YOU DON'T SEE THAT KIND OF THREE-WAY SPLIT OVER UKRAINE, TYPICALLY.

>> DOES THIS PUT INTO FOCUS TRADITIONALLY WHAT HAS BEEN THE ROLE OF THE UNITED STATES AS THE MEDIATOR, THE NEGOTIATOR, THE PERSON YOU CAN CALL ?

IN ONE SENSE, I DON'T SEE THE PHONE LINES BURNING UP EVERYWHERE ELSE.

SAYING, HEY, HELP US GET OUT OF THE SITUATION, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THE DAY BEFORE HE WAS SCHEDULED TO MEET WITH THE JORDANIAN LEADER, THE PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP, THERE WAS THAT HORRIBLE ROCKET CHANGED ALL THE PLANS.

>> I THINK -- TO SHUN THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT AND BASICALLY SAY PLEASE DON'T COME.

IT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT THE STRENGTHS OF OPINION ON THE ARAB STREET THAT OUR LEADERS ARE SO WORRIED ABOUT THE DEMONSTRATIONS THAT ARE COMING TOGETHER BUT I THINK IT ALSO SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT DECLINING AMERICAN POWER AND INFLUENCE.

NEVERTHELESS, THE UNITED STATES REMAINS THE ONLY ADDRESSING PARTING BECAUSE THEY ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO CAN SPEAK TO ISRAEL AND TRY TO HELP ISRAEL FIND A WAY THROUGH AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT UNITED STATES NEEDS TO DO IS TO HELP ISRAEL THINK WHAT HAPPENS THE DAY AFTER.

LET'S ASSUME FOR A MOMENT THAT THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL IN EVICTING HAMAS FROM GAZA, WHICH IS NOT AN EASY ORDER BUT LET'S ASSUME IT SUCCESSFUL.

THEN WHAT?

HISTORY HAS SHOWN THAT AFTER PREVIOUS WARS, HAMAS DOES COME BACK AND IT IS A POLITICAL MOVEMENT AND A SOCIAL MOVEMENT AND THERE IS, AT THE MOMENT, NO ALTERNATIVE POWER THAT IS GOING TO RULE THE GAZA STRIP.

UNLESS THAT PART OF THE PROBLEM IS FIXED, THEN IT'S UNFORTUNATELY LIKELY TO LEAD TO YET ANOTHER CYCLE OF VIOLENCE.

>> THE PRESIDENT TRY TO MAKE THE CASE TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC TO GET CONGRESS TO FUND BOTH OUR INVOLVEMENT IN THE SUPPORT OF UKRAINE, AS WELL AS OUR INVOLVEMENT IN THE SUPPORT OF ISRAEL.

HE WANTED TO TRY AND TIE THOSE TWO THINGS ALONG WITH NATIONAL SECURITY AT HOME WHEN HE'S ASKING CONGRESS FOR THE MONEY.

HE SAID, QUOTE, HAMAS AND PUTIN REPRESENT DIFFERENT THREATS BUT THEY SHARE THIS IN COMMON.

THEY BOTH WANT TO ANNIHILATE A NEIGHBORING DEMOCRACY, COMPLETELY ANNIHILATE IT.

IT'S HIS PLEA GETTING THROUGH, ESPECIALLY TO A NEW SPEAKER OF SEPARATE THESE DIFFERENT ENGAGEMENTS?

>> IT SEEMS THAT IT IS NOT GETTING THROUGH TO HIM IN PARTICULAR.

HE WOULD LIKE TO SEPARATE THE BUNDLES AND THEY WOULD LIKE TO VOTE IN ISRAEL WHICH IS EXTREMELY POPULAR AND IT'S NOT ENTIRELY CLEAR WHAT THEY WANT TO DO IN UKRAINE ON UKRAINE, THERE IS STILL A BIPARTISAN MAJORITY THAT SUPPORTS HELPING UKRAINE AGAINST RUSSIA, PARTICULARLY AS THE COUNTEROFFENSIVE IS STALLING AND A LONG WAR IS A PROSPECT.

BUT IT IS BECOMING MORE DIFFICULT TO GET MORE MONEY, PARTICULARLY FOR REPUBLICANS AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE SAYING, LOOK, LET'S HAVE ONE BIG VOTE ON UKRAINE.

LET'S GIVE THEM THE MONEY THEY NEED FOR THE COMING YEAR.

LET'S NOT COME BACK TO THIS AGAIN IN ELECTION YEAR.

WHETHER THEY SUCCEEDED IN DOING THAT QUESTION.

THE RULES OF CONGRESS ARE WHAT THEY ARE AND IT SEEMS TO ME THAT, YOU KNOW, A SUBSTANTIAL ANTI-UKRAINE REPUBLICANS, YOU KNOW, THEY DO HAVE SOME KIND OF VETO OVER WHAT THE HOUSE DOES, WHICH IN TURNS MEANS, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE A VETO ON WHAT CONGRESS, AS A WHOLE, DOES.

SO UNLESS A PROLE A PUBLIC IS WILLING TO CROSS THE AISLE, OBTAIN VOTES FROM DEMOCRATS ON THIS PARTICULAR QUESTION, IT'S DIFFICULT TO SEE HOW THINGS REALLY PROGRESS.

>> THE OTHER KIND OF ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM, IF YOU WILL, CHINA.

CHINA SEEMS TO BE THE SORT OF THIRD MAJOR INTERNATIONAL CRISES THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS TO CONFRONT.

>> PRESIDENT BIDEN COMING INTO OFFICE WAS HOPING TO HAVE STABLE AND PREDICTABLE RELATIONSHIPS WITH EUROPE AND RUSSIA AND TO PART THE MIDDLE EAST IN ORDER TO CONCENTRATE ON THAT IS NOT THE WAY IT HAS TURNED OUT.

HE'S GOT A MAJOR WAR IN EUROPE AND NOW HE HAS A MAJOR WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST, TOO, TO MANAGE.

AND NOW THE QUESTION IS WHETHER CHINA IS SEEING A STRETCHED AMERICA .

WILL WE SEE AN OPPORTUNITY TO , YOU KNOW, ACT ON TAIWAN, WHETHER IN THE GRAY ZONE, OR AS AN OVERT INVASION.

THE, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT MECHANICAL.

A LOT DEPENDS ON THE POLITICS OF WHAT HAPPENS IN TAIWAN, IN THE UNITED STATES, BOTH OF WHICH HAVE ELECTIONS NEXT YEAR AND INDEED, IN THE POLITICS OF WHAT HAPPENS, WHICH ARE HARDER TO DIVIDE, NEVERTHELESS, MILITARY STRATEGISTS WORRY ABOUT A SUPPOSEDLY WINDOW OF VULNERABILITY WHEN CHINA'S MILITARY STRENGTH WILL CONTINUE TO INCREASE AND AMERICAS WILL NOT CATCH UP UNTIL THE 23rd WHEN NEW INVESTMENTS BEGIN TO BEAR FRUIT.

IN THE MEANTIME, THERE IS A MOVE TOWARDS HELPING TAIWAN BECOME MORE OF A --WITH MORE DEFENSIVE WEAPONS TO HOLD OFF A POTENTIAL CHINESE INVASION .

YOU HAVE STARTED TO SEE SOME WEAPONS BEING MADE AVAILABLE TO TAIWAN AND THIS NEW PACKAGE OF NATIONAL SECURITY SUPPLEMENTAL FUNDING THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN REQUESTED APPEARS TO CONTAIN MONEY FOR TAIWAN, AS WELL.

THAT IS CERTAINLY ONE THAT IS WORTH WATCHING AND I THINK FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, AMERICANS IN THE INDO PACIFIC, EVERY DAY THAT PASSES WITHOUT A CHINESE ATTACK ON TAIWAN IS A GOOD DAY.

>> EARLIER THIS DAY, JAKE SULLIVAN IN THE NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR WROTE ON THE FOREIGN AFFAIRS THAT THE UNITED STATES IS UNDER UTILIZING OR EVEN UNDERMINING OUR ALLIANCES WITH OTHER DEMOCRACIES AND I WONDER IF UNITED STATES HAS BEEN ABLE TO REFRAME AND ADJUST THOSE RELATIONSHIPS.

>> IT IS TRUE THAT AMERICA'S ALLIANCES WERE PUT UNDER GREAT STRAIN IN THE TRUMP YEARS.

IT IS ALSO TRUE THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS INVESTED A GREAT DEAL OF EFFORT IN BRINGING TOGETHER ITS ALLIES, BOTH IN EUROPE AND IN ASIA .

RUSSIA'S INVASION OF UKRAINE HAS BEEN A CATALYST FOR THAT.

NATO IS MORE COMPACT THAN IT HAS BEEN FOR A LONG TIME.

IT HAS A RENEWED SENSE OF PURPOSE.

JAPAN, AUSTRALIA, AND OTHERS HAVE ALSO TRIED TO HELP EUROPE AGAINST RUSSIA IN THE BELIEF THAT, OR IN THE HOPE THAT IN THE FUTURE, SHOULD THERE BE CONTINGENCY IN ASIA, EUROPE WILL COME TO THEIR AID IN TURN.

SO YOU ARE SEEING THIS KIND OF NETWORK OF ALLIANCES GROWING CLOSER TOGETHER ON TOP OF WHICH YOU'VE HAD THIS AD HOC PATCHWORK OF RELATIONSHIP .

SO I THINK ON THE ALLIANCE FRONT, THE ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE A FAIRLY GOOD JOB.

THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THE CRISIS IN THE MIDDLE EAST, WHERE THE U.S. TAKES A POSITION THAT IS SOMEWHAT DIFFERENT FROM MOST OF ITS ALLIES WILL PUT A NEW STRAIN ON IT.

AT THE MOMENT, I DO NOT THINK IT'S A PROBLEM, BUT IT MIGHT BECOME A PROBLEM IN THE FUTURE, PARTICULARLY IF IT STARTS TO HAVE REPERCUSSIONS ACROSS THE MIDDLE EAST AND SO ON.

YOU GET A FLOW OF, YOU KNOW, MIGRANTS FROM THE WORLD INTO EUROPE.

THE OTHER WAY THAT THIS AFFECTS THINGS IS JUST THE AMOUNT OF ATTENTION AMERICA CAN PAY TO ANY PARTICULAR SET OF REGIONAL PROBLEMS.

THE LAST THING TO SAY IS THAT THE ADMINISTRATION CAME IN WITH A VERY STRONG DEMOCRACIES VERSUS AUTOCRACY MIND-SET AND WORLDVIEW.

IT HAS SOMEWHAT MODERATED THAT BECAUSE IT REALIZED IT NEEDS NOT NECESSARILY DEMOCRACIES.

FOR EXAMPLE, VIETNAM , WHICH IS NOT A DEMOCRACY, BUT IS A USEFUL PARTNER WITH WHICH TO COUNTERBALANCE CHINA.

SO I THINK YOU ARE SEEING A MORE NUANCED PERCEPTION BY THE ADMINISTRATION .

SO FAR, SO GOOD.

BUT THERE IS STILL SOME WAY TO GO.

AND, BY THE WAY, IF CONGRESS WERE TO CUT OFF AID TO UKRAINE, THAT WOULD PUT A HUGE AMOUNT OF STRAIN ON RELATIONS WITH THE EUROPEANS.

>> GIVEN THE DYSFUNCTION INSIDE OUR OWN GOVERNMENT OVER THE PAST SEVERAL WEEKS, AND GIVEN HOW STRETCHED THE UNITED STATES IS IN ALL OF THESE DIFFERENT THEATERS , I WONDER WHAT THAT SAYS TO COUNTRIES THAT ARE OUR ALLIES ON WHETHER OR NOT WE CAN BE A PARTNER THAT CAN BE COUNTED ON.

>> IT IS A WORRY AROUND THE WORLD , AMONG AMERICA'S FRIENDS AND PARTNERS.

BUT IT IS A WORRY THAT THEY CANNOT DO MUCH ABOUT.

SO THEIR ONLY CHOICE IS TO KEEP TRYING TO WORK WITH THE UNITED STATES .

IT IS EASIER WITH JOE BIDEN, IT WILL BE HARDER.

IT WAS HARDER WITH DONALD TRUMP AND IT MAY BE HARDER AGAIN IF HE IS RE-ELECTED.

SO, SURE, COUNTRIES CAN TRY AND HEDGE SOMEWHAT.

YOU HERE FOR EXAMPLE, FRENCH PRESIDENT EMMANUEL MACRON SAYING THIS IS TIME FOR EUROPE TO GAIN SOME STRATEGIC BECAUSE WE CANNOT ALWAYS RELY ON THE UNITED STATES AND, INDEED, WHAT EVEN UNDER JOE BIDEN, THERE IS STILL THE SORT OF TENDENCIES TO SORT OF, YOU KNOW, FOR AMERICANS TO CLOSE IN ON ITSELF .

EIGHT TO UKRAINE MAY NOT ALWAYS BE FORTHCOMING.

THEREFORE, WE MUST DO MORE.

THE PROBLEM, OF COURSE, IS THAT EUROPEANS DON'T YET HAVE THE WHEREWITHAL TO DO IT, BECOMING LONG EFFORT AND IT'S SLOW PROGRESS BECAUSE THEY, TOO, HAVE TO TRADE OFF SPENDING ON DEFENSE AND SECURITY AGAINST SOCIAL SPENDING AND ALL THE OTHER PROBLEMS THAT THEY MUST CONFRONT.

SO IT'S DIFFICULT.

IT'S EASIER AND CHEAPER TO DO THINGS TOGETHER WITH THEIR LIVES AND IT'S HARDER TO DO IT SEPARATE AND, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE BIG QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER EUROPE CAN DO IT , GIVEN THE LACK OF AMERICAN LEADERSHIP.

YOU KNOW, IF AMERICAN LEADERSHIP WERE LACKING, GUIDANCE AND THE NUCLEAR UMBRELLA THAT THE UNITED STATES EXTENDS OVER A PLACE LIKE EUROPE.

>> ANTWON BLAKE ARDEA FROM THE ECONOMIST, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

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